New FTA Mux on 119

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Re: New FTA Mux on 119

Post by fatso » Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:13 pm

Those were Caribbean feeds not intended for the USA market. I can confirm they are down for now but engineering may be uplinking them again soon. The reason I say this is because I've noticed several other transponders blink on/off on that satellite, so someone is testing something for sure. Just wait and see...
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Re: New FTA Mux on 119

Post by Glenn » Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:39 am

Hi!
In reference to MUX's... Been having a problem with my old SRC solid ten footer, and have spent a lot of money trying to get the MUX of stations back east in USA, on 103, to no avail. Can get them on the four footer, and the six footer. And the three footer. Put in an inexpensive LNBF, and get stuff from one horizon to the other on cband. Spent a lot of money, and get cannot get stuff I want on ku-band. Have another horn arriving tomorrow, but will probably have the same result. A wide band co-rotor. Can adjacent satellite sigs be wiping out the MUX I want on the big dish? 'They' are not there. I see no reason why I am having this problem. I can not get sigs on 125 either. Not on the ten footer...the post is still vertical. The declination is correct... the ... been trying it with two different receivers. On 123, I can get a couple stations...other times, I can get a different set of stations. Should be getting the whole bunch at the same time! Right now, can only get KBS. I don't think the smoke in the air from up north of us has any affect. I am 'lost' on this! Using Norsat 3220 and 4206..whatever the number is, for ku...tried a different one today, and no difference. A $30 one!! Worked just as well as the Norsat!

I am 'baffled' as to what is going on. In discussions in the recent past; things were brought up in regards to old dishes not being designed for the new closeness of the satellites.

However; I was using a horn with two cband 3220's and not looking for stuff on ku-band. I have a three footer that gets more on ku than the ten footer! And all the dishes are 'ancient'.

Have replaced all the coax to the ten footer, and new servo lines. All wires have been replaced.

I have used both a $200 meter; and a 32 inch tv showing received sigs strength. Dunno what else to do. The meter pin-points the strength. The scale on the rx's does the same. Not as closely, of course.

What have I done wrong? Any ideas?

There is a lot of stuff on ku that interests me, rather than c. Seems like I should get more on the ten footer, rather than the smaller ones. Using nothing but Chaparral horns. The one arriving tomorrow will be another one, but the one that is 'wide-band'. For ku/c. Have spent many hours; using the 'template' with the critters, and just 'playing around'... and still can not get what I desire. Have not checked 'sun-spot' activity lately, but did not think that would have any affect.

There is a public 'wi-fi' across the street, and I presume in the house next door, that uses a 'wireless' security system. Sig strength on the receivers ...is not steady...it 'blinks' ! Will show 87%; then 'blinks'...then is back. I replaced my whole ground system. No change. I put ferrite beads on the inputs to the horn. No change. Several months ago, when I changed the distance with the 'scalar', sigs strength would change. Very little difference now. I do not understand that. Same horn. Used to be able to get a lot more ku than I get now on that ten footer. Have spent several weeks attempting to figure out what the problem is, to no avail.

Have been hesitant to come back to this forum because of the 'un-sponsored' sales crap that was going on, and the arguing. Looks like it has cleared up. I know very little about this stuff, and tired of wasting money attempting to solve my situation. No one in this town seems to know anything about FTA. Which..really surprises me. Was different many years ago. Cable and commercial satellite stuff is 'down the drain' now. In this town, anyway, from what I can tell. However; I have discovered some may be interested in FTA! They do not want to get on forums though. I have not asked why. I gotta be able to solve my own problems before I feel I can say anything to anyone about the stuff!

I must be overlooking something that is relatively simple. I have a 'straight shot' at 103. And 125...no buildings or trees. I can go to cband and get all kinds of stuff on the same satellites with the ten footer. Uh....?! Never heard of this situation before.

Thank you.

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Re: New FTA Mux on 119

Post by elko » Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:12 am

The reason your 10' dish is underperforming (or not performing at all) in the ku band is due to poor illumination. Your scalar ring is optimized for c band waves. After all, it is a c band dish! :wink:

You can think of your scalar ring as an optical lens. When your C band LNB 'looks' through this lens, it 'sees' and captures all the incoming radiation across the entire dish surface (more or less). In other words, the lens (or scalar ring) is in focus over the entire surface area of the dish. However, when your ku band LNB looks through this same lens (scalar ring), only the center of the dish aperture appears to be in focus and only that incoming radiation is captured and amplified. Obviously, the rest of the radiation is discarded and not used. This is why a 10' dish performs like a 3' or 4' ku dish with a tuned feedhorn (usually conical).

Even with 20-30% efficiency in the ku band, you should still be able to receive all the ku signals on 125 and 103. This means there is something else wrong with your setup if you get nothing. Swap the ku lnb, check the skew and try moving it in/out of the convergence region. It should register something.

As far as I know, there is no high-efficiency, commercial ku band feedhorn for large prime focus antennas. Come to think of it, any front-fed solution would lead to significant blockage (might work well on a 6' or 7' though). The big boys all use :bow: Cassegrain/Gregorian feeds to narrow the convergence region (i.e. generate a 2nd convergence region) on their giant prime focus antennas to optimize power transfer to the ku LNB which translates to more efficient illumination of the dish aperture.

So, just built yourself a Cassegrain feed and your dish will perform better than ever! :grin:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassegrain_antenna

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Wi-fi interference?

Post by Glenn » Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:13 pm

Thanks for the reply. Appreciate it. 'Live and learn'. About eighteen months ago, I added ku onto that dish, and got everything. I obviously now have tons of stray rf from other sources now. Walk outside, and the meter starts 'beeping'. Before I hook it up to the dish! Wireless cameras are useless around here now. Many two story houses are installing the new wireless security systems, and putting up signs in their front yards warning people.

The outfit across the street seems to have changed something related to their 'private' users wi-fi capability too. Have also noticed companies that install new security systems over there lately too.

Due to dramatic increase in crime many houses around here are now installing brand new security systems and I presume they are all 'wireless'. Have already had two instances of people attempting to break in our front door twice this year. Takes about 30-45 minutes to get the cops out here, after being put on 'hold' on 911. Past couple years the cops warn people to not answer the door unless they know the person.

I do get signals on 103, 121, and the one on 123...tons of encrypted 'Dish' on 121. Only get the strong sigs, and using that meter, I should have no problem 'sighting in on the weaker ones'. But that does not work any more! What really 'blows my mind' is that it seems no matter what I do, I can no longer get anything on 125 on that dish. Makes no sense to me, but that is aiming the dish more towards the house next door, and the outfit across the street. Probably just 'coincidence'. On cband, no problem. Get signals down to 87 when I turn the dish away from all the new houses. Just seems 'coincidental' to me.

Weather has been perfect to work on antennas, and all of a sudden I run into stuff I have never encountered!

After countless hours this summer attempting to get some of my favorite sigs on that dish, using different horns and LNB's, guess I have to accept 'what used to work, no longer works'...at this location, anyway. Nothing has changed on 97 and lower. But I don't get stuff that I do not recognize down there, either. I go to satellites higher than 125 on cband, and things are normal. Just thought maybe 'wi-fi' interference might be the problem on ku with all this new stuff being installed in the new houses.

After I install the new horn, guess I will put the present one on the six foot dish. It is the furthest away from any houses, and see what happens. Have not played with it for about a year now. Never heard of anyone installing one of these horns on a six footer before, but guess I will see what the end result is.

I will look up the 'Wikipedia' info you gave me. Thank you.

Two of my cabled cameras are now picking up rf interference too. Both; near the big dish. The receivers indicate 'pulsing' signals, that I can not identify. Run 24/7....and sometimes seems to quit altogether. Almost as though someone 'flipped a switch'. And they are very strong! Plus the increasing number of solid signals that I have no idea to what they are related to.

Am picking up all this stray rf in the microwave range.

One neighbor next to us told me he had some game he bought for the kids, that activates by itself, and was thinking maybe I had something to do with that. That was just several months ago, when I had no problems that I have now.

I tried moving the horn, and scalar ring. Even removed the ring completely. I have the focal point correct. Was thinking perhaps the 'front end' of the receivers were being overloaded by the stray rf and more or less shutting down. As stated earlier, I have never had this type problem with that dish until the past several months. Tried using a different LNB too. No difference. But. I do lack the experience many of you folks have with this stuff. Maybe I am overlooking something.

Cband is no problem. What is 'weird' is that 123 is my closest satellite. Should be getting encrypted VA plus a couple more un-encrypted stations, besides the one station. Get the stuff on the four footer!

The servo motor seems to be installed and working correctly. 'Polar axis' is correct. Using the template from Chaparral 'jives'. Deflection works correctly, and the whole thing is and has been 'plumb' for about thirty years or more! Guess it has outlived the guy that helped me put it up!

The stuff you just stated; I was never aware of. In regards to a big dish and ku. Thanks for the information.

What you state, coincides with my experience with the smaller vs larger dish on ku at this 'point in time'. I dunno...seems my experience has been that I usually got a lot more ku on the larger dish. Until the past few months.

I am constantly scanning, looking for news-feeds and stuff that pops up once in a while, then vanishes. That is what I really like about ku, plus all the stations from this part of the planet that I can ordinarily pick up. Just barely able to get over the two story houses nearby. So, we really try to 'make the most' of it now a days!

Thanks again.

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Re: New FTA Mux on 119

Post by rusty » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:04 pm

Glenn,

I would just use a 4' offset dish for ku. Use your C band dish for C band only. Works for me!
12' Cosmos Primestar (refurbished)36" SuperJack Actuator
Chaparral Corotor Feed (Norsat 8115, 4106A)
ZGemmaH7 UHD, OctagonSX88 HD, Edision UHD, DSR-6000, DSR-6050
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Re: New FTA Mux on 119

Post by Z_finigan » Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:06 am

IMG_20170820_011307001.jpg
C band lnb and ku lnb. Not in line.
Ok. So my ku is not set the same as my c band lnb. And the ku works better this way. It's a 12 dollar lnb.
I used zip ties. Works good.
Here are some photos. Just find vertical and horizontal and set the lnb. Put your box on a satellite you know the frequency works. Then move the dish. The signal should go up and down. Look for high spots. Then blind scan. Some boxes will show quality even when not tuned. Once you get a lock. Adjust you skew first. To its peak. Then the vertical up and down on the lnb.
When I tried to keep it in line with the c band lnb. I only got 30%. The way it is now. 50 and 60%.
IMG_20170820_011307001.jpg
C band lnb and ku lnb. Not in line.
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AMC 18. 105w
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AMC 18. 105w
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AMC 15ku. 105w
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AMC 1ku
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AMC 1
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Galaxy 16ku
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Attachments
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107w

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Re: New FTA Mux on 119

Post by rusty » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:27 pm

Good job with ku Z_finigan. :bow:

From time to time, some cool feeds appear on ku (especially hockey).
12' Cosmos Primestar (refurbished)36" SuperJack Actuator
Chaparral Corotor Feed (Norsat 8115, 4106A)
ZGemmaH7 UHD, OctagonSX88 HD, Edision UHD, DSR-6000, DSR-6050
Clarke Belt: 22W - 133W

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Re: New FTA Mux on 119

Post by Glenn » Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:52 am

Hello gentlemen.

Thanks for the input. After being referred to the Wikipedia information, I had to stop and realize I needed to go back to 'kindergarten' school again.

My problem was very basic. Lack of having the horn centered properly. Ku comes in great now!

This 40 year old dish has the three long arms, plus another three, that attach to the long ones, plus, the mount for the horn. That are only a few inches long, to be used to 'sight in'. Each time I moved the horn, those small, short arms moved too. Due to not being tightened correctly.

On cband, it was not really noticeable, to amount to anything. But due to the logistics involved with ku, it was obviously another type situation.

And 'YES' sometimes there is some pretty 'neat' stuff that pops up on ku. I am scanning 'all the time' !! If you enjoy sports, a lot of stuff appears 'out of nowhere' ! I really enjoy the news-feeds before they are edited.

Brian helped me remember some basic things, and now; I am ready to set up the six footer again.

I do appreciate your comments gentlemen. Very informative, indeed.

Thank you.
Glenn

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