uhf and hi-vhf with amp

Discussions about highly directional antennas such as Yagi, corner reflectors and parabolic reflectors for long-range terrestrial reception.
jess76
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uhf and hi-vhf with amp

Post by jess76 » Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:16 pm

After having my old "Radio Shack" ant come down along with a tree removal, I bought an Esky HG-996 for $32+ship. It was one of those ant/rotor/amp all in one. I mounted up about 6' on the side of my heat/air unit on the roof, and was suprised at how well it worked. There were some ch's that I did not receive although it was listed as uhf/vhf antenna. Most of the transmitters use uhf although there are still 4 that use 10 9 7 and 3. I installed an HDB 91X [Solid Signal} and a 30-2476[Stellar Labs] along with an RCA amp to combine the uhf and hi-vhf antennas. I had a never used Radio Shack rotor that I installed on the mast. I'm in an aera where the transmitters are in many different locations, so to take advantage of OTA a rotor is a must. Like I said the antennas are only about 15-20 from ground level and I'm getting quite a lot of the ch's out of Fresno[90mi] on a regular basis, and the ones from Sacramento[55mi] also by turning the antennas. The ch's that operate on 7 , 10 , and 9 come in very good. I can even get 3[Spanish] which is about 35mi away. The ch's out of San Francisco are sporadic. If I can get my antennas up to 40-50 ' those may improve greatly,,who knows! Jess out in California
9' mesh with c/ku feed horn,lnb's w/polorotor. Recievers hooked up: AZ prem hd., Pansat9500,and Manhattan. I have a few others in my colection including an old Satcruiser and a Captiveworks3000.

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Re: uhf and hi-vhf with amp

Post by Titanium » Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:23 am

I am in the Sierra foothills in Meadow Vista at 1700'. Get reliable San Francisco on a 40+ channels (135 miles), Sacramento 20 channels (35 miles) and 8 Chico channels (Sutter Buttes - 40 miles) reception. Summer months make the San Francisco channels less reliable, but add some channels from the southern end of the valley.

Have XG-91 and YA-1713 antennas on Channel Master rotor at 65 feet into a Kitztech preamp. The HDHomerun tuner is mounted at the top of the tower with POE cat 6 running into the LAN router.

Fun hobby to chase summer tropo openings in addition to FTA!
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jess76
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Re: uhf and hi-vhf with amp

Post by jess76 » Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:54 pm

Looks like a wifi on the bottom? I agree, and it's free. I'm wondering what the change to 3.0 will bring to OTA. Jess out in California
9' mesh with c/ku feed horn,lnb's w/polorotor. Recievers hooked up: AZ prem hd., Pansat9500,and Manhattan. I have a few others in my colection including an old Satcruiser and a Captiveworks3000.

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Re: uhf and hi-vhf with amp

Post by Titanium » Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:20 pm

Yes, Have a 1/2 mile point to point WiFi link using Ubiquiti transceivers connecting my home to the C and KU-band dishes located at the office. Unable to have a C-band dish at home, so remote control and usually pass the complete transport stream to my HTPC. 8-) Only have a few KU birds on a motorized 90cm shooting between the pine and oak trees.

I am hoping that the ATSC 3.0 results in better signals and increased coverage into the fringe areas. My fear is that with the repack, more channels will be co-located and on a reduced number of carriers, possibly resulting in less available channels. Often I can receive channels on one mux, but not receive a similar frequency and powered max located on the same tower.

The lack of information on the voluntary transition leaves a lot of unanswered questions. Looking forward to the presentations and demos at CES / NAB this year. I imagine that we'll learn a lot at those events!
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jess76
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Re: uhf and hi-vhf with amp

Post by jess76 » Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:29 pm

Interesting that you cam send your sat. info to your home through Wi-Fi. When we took on Direct for another 2yrs. they gave us an up-dated receiver w/dvr and a couple of "slave" small boxes for 2 bedrooms that are connected to the main receiver through Wi-Fi. The both still need a cable connection, but Wi-Fi connects them both to the main receiver. Thanks for the information! At 78 things are moving at a faster pace than I can keep up with. Jess out in California
9' mesh with c/ku feed horn,lnb's w/polorotor. Recievers hooked up: AZ prem hd., Pansat9500,and Manhattan. I have a few others in my colection including an old Satcruiser and a Captiveworks3000.

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Re: uhf and hi-vhf with amp

Post by Glenn » Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:06 pm

Hi guys!

So 'that' is what a 'wi-fi' antenna looks like!

My wife sits in the living room with her laptop, connected to a wi-fi connection across the street in a building. Have many cars stop in front of our house, evidently trying to make the connection. Ever since the connection was available a couple years ago. I presume they can get it on the new type telephones while they drive down the street and run over pedestrians and bicyclists. Or park out front, trying to make the connection. Seems there would have to be a 'repeater' somewhere. Do they use 'repeaters' with that wi-fi stuff?

This is a little 'off subject' but maybe I can ask a question or two before someone starts up another argument! :lol: What frequencies is that stuff on? I have never seen an antenna across the street. Perhaps it is inside the building. If it is, wouldn't that have a negative effect in regards to the signal strength? At what I presume is a very high frequency? And how 'directional' are they? Do they use omni directional antennas? What is the typical/average distance of a 'wi-fi' connection? We have trees and many two story houses and even higher houses that the wealthy have remodeled around here. I would tend to think 'line of sight' would almost be 'zilch'! The highest part of that place just is not that high! My opinion. Vehicles stop all the time, day and night.

Jess; I almost fainted the last time I did a 'scan' with one of our TV's! Tons of stations! Think it was about '69'! Some at least 50 miles from here. And many are in Spanish. Surprised you have only three. Am getting too old to climb the tower and put up another OTA antenna above the beam. I bought this antenna about 5 years ago, after taking the old monster down, and replacing the beam. And put it up about 15 feet or so; surrounded by trees and higher houses nearby, except to the 'south'. I have a 'straight shot' to your house! And maybe yours, Brian! Find it interesting the stuff you guys refer to. Guess the amplifiers are better now a days than when I tried the things. They would always get 'over-loaded' by the local stations if I remember correctly. Technology has of course changed since those days. Back in those days, I would just put the TV antenna higher, to get stations from out of state! Was a challenge because winds from the direction you folks live would nearly rip them off and deliver them into the next country up north of here!

We have never had cable subscription service or satellite subscription service from Direct or Dish. Therefore; I am pretty ignorant about how a lot of the stuff works.

Later.
Glenn...with 'two' 'n's!! Not one!! :lol: :lol:
Whoops! I see that Jess beat me! I am 8 years younger than he is! Oh well. Am not going to start an argument over it!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: uhf and hi-vhf with amp

Post by Titanium » Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:51 am

I am far from being a WiFi expert, but needed to learn to meet my needs. I'll take a stab at answering your questions. :)

Most companies run a private network with pass codes and may also provide a limited amount of bandwidth for open public (guest) usage. Likely the street visitors have been drawn to a free WiFi connection to reduce their cell data usage or their device may only have WiFi capability. The location may be listed on a "Free WiFi" map app. My office is located by the local library with free WiFi. Often saw folks sitting in the parking lot at night or in the outside seating with laptops, tablets and smart phones getting their data fix. LOL!

Repeaters (extenders) are used for larger coverage zones or inside buildings. They are smart networked devices to manage the simultaneous use of channels and user connections. Usually the antennas are located near the targeted usage areas. Outside antennas are usually used for outside coverage (like a storage yard) or for point to point connections. The antennas are available in omni or directional patterns and in various gain to fit the coverage needs. Low gain omni patterns may cover office areas and higher gain or directional antennas may target larger or elongated zones.

The networks can be configured for multiple user general coverage of an area or for moving data between single or multiple points. Zone coverage might only be several hundred feet while point to point links could be 20 or more miles. Just depends on the transceivers band, power and antenna. I read that a 900MHz link record was set in New Zealand many years ago using BUD dishes at 125+ miles.

Typically WiFi networks use the common 900MHz, 2.4 or 5GHz bands. 900 is a crowded band, but is good for passing through walls and limited obstuctions because the waves are longer. 2.4GHz is most popular and can be a quite crowded band in urban settings. It is good for open spaces and not attenuated by rain, but is attenuated by walls and vegetation, so the line of sight needs to be mostly clear. 5GHz is less crowded as it is a newer band. It is good for open spaces and clear line of sight as it is attenuated by any obstruction including rain.

I use three systems. At the office have a wired and wireless 2.4/5GHz router with an extender in the storage area. At home a similar system with an extender in the storage shed for improved outdoor coverage. The point to point 2.4GHz system has a 3 foot parabolic grid dish with mast mounted transceiver on the clock tower of the office building and a 2 foot parabolic grid dish with mast mounted transceiver on the tower at home. The office side is connected only to the receivers via a wired router, but tied into the home router to give access to the satellite receivers from any local wired or wireless connection. Also connect an office C/KU satellite receiver to a Slingbox so I can watch anywhere via the internet (with lower picture quality).

OTA preamps still work the same way and can be easily overloaded by strong local signals. The Klitztech units are the best that I have used as they provide excellent gain with very low noise. Had used Channel Master preamps for years, but they just didn't cut it in my current location. A TV guru (Trip) suggested I try one of the Klitztech models. I was blown away with the difference. To give you an idea of my situation, most signals are at or below reception threshold at my location. If it wasn't my own system, I would have looked at the TvFool printout with 2 and 3 edge signals and said "no way". LOL!

Rented a bucket truck and located to best height and location on the property for the tower install to receive the targeted channels. After the initial install I was pretty disappointed with only receiving a few channels on a single direct coax to one tv in the house. Moving the tuners to the top of the mast (with power via the cat6 POE Power Over Ethernet with power inserter) and eliminating 100' coax run helped considerably and brought in 10 channels. Installing the Klitztech preamp was the game changer.

I fondly recall how simple it was in suberbia to throw a little antenna in the attic and receive 60 channels! :lol: Like you, I no longer like climbing. Now I wonder why I didn't buy a crank-up tower long ago!

Have a great day!
Titanium - Brian Gohl
He who dies with the most toys... is dead. - unknown
:beer

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Re: uhf and hi-vhf with amp

Post by Glenn » Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:01 pm

Ok....now I have an idea as to the configuration. I am surprised they are using 900 mhz. Thought most everything now a days had changed to 2.4 ghz. 5 ghz too, eh? Apparently this installation across the street is just for use within a ...couple hundred feet. I never see anyone any further away than about that distance, and I have cameras that see about two blocks all directions. So that is what is going on! That was one of the first things i noticed; was that you had the amplifier at the antenna. Instead of inside. I still have some of the amps from 'way back when'! Yeah, the higher you go, the more problems, unless you do have 'line of sight' without any obstructions. Maybe that is what they are using, because the cars are rather close to the place. I might walk around there someday and see if they have a vertical that is not easily spotted, that is outside the building, just out of curiosity. Where I used to work at, they installed multiple repeaters in the building. The antennas looked like 900 mhz to me. But that was done before the term 'wi-fi' even existed, I think. Remember the days when you could turn your AM radio on, and listen to the people next door at the high end of the radio band, when they used their 'cordless telephone'? Things certainly have changed! :lol:

Ok. Thanks a million! I appreciate it.

Yeah, the 'crank up'. I know I have seen some over the years, but can not remember anyone that actually had one around here. It was always cheaper to put the sections together. But I guess some of us forgot we might still be using a tower 40 or 50 years later! Everybody I knew, is dead now. When I go up there, people stop and take pictures from the sidewalks with their new type phones! It is so rare to see a civilian climbing a tower anymore! One guy said my "cia listening station" (referring to the antennas) must have been 'grandfathered in'. Little does he know that it is still legal to install anything you desire, in most any part of this town still! Most people do not have enough room these days anyway, because of lots being split up, and two houses being built; each on a tiny lot.

What a coincidence! Just realized I have a couple 'wireless cameras' still hooked up out front....and there has been tons of interference on them, making them useless the past couple years or so. Guess what! 2.4 ghz!!
Interesting! The rx's have four frequencies. And the amount of interference is different on each freq! I thought at one time, a neighbor was causing it somehow. But people have come and gone. And the rf interference is still there! Maybe someday, they will change the system to 5ghz, and the cameras will be useful again! :lol: :lol:

I think now a days, they started using 5 ghz. for those cameras, however; I can see where that might not be much help with the popularity of wi-fi in a city!

Thanks again Brian!
Glenn

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Re: uhf and hi-vhf with amp

Post by jess76 » Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:49 pm

Hey Guy,s; Remember Microwave TV? Not sure what freq. that used, but I had one of those systems. The antenna looked much like a "Wi-Fi" dish and it had a "downcoverter" that mounted at the antenna and a converter box by the TV. I was able to get snowy TV out of Fresno and an educational ch transmitted From Mt Olmo which was much closer. There was a group of inverters setting up a system in Ripon at the time. Got the transmitter tower up but then folded. I don't think there is any Microwave TV around any more. I guess those freq's. got taken over by all our gadgets. Jess out in California
9' mesh with c/ku feed horn,lnb's w/polorotor. Recievers hooked up: AZ prem hd., Pansat9500,and Manhattan. I have a few others in my colection including an old Satcruiser and a Captiveworks3000.

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Re: uhf and hi-vhf with amp

Post by Glenn » Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:03 am

jess76 wrote:Hey Guy,s; Remember Microwave TV? Not sure what freq. that used, but I had one of those systems. The antenna looked much like a "Wi-Fi" dish and it had a "downcoverter" that mounted at the antenna and a converter box by the TV. I was able to get snowy TV out of Fresno and an educational ch transmitted From Mt Olmo which was much closer. There was a group of inverters setting up a system in Ripon at the time. Got the transmitter tower up but then folded. I don't think there is any Microwave TV around any more. I guess those freq's. got taken over by all our gadgets. Jess out in California
Maybe they got cooked by the microwave ovens! :lol: How many years ago you talking about?

Glenn

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